Speaker of the Georgian parliament Nino Burjanadze
Photo: Dmitry Lebedev
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"War Is Not to Georgia's Advantage"
// Interview with the speaker of the Georgian parliament
Exclusive to Kommersant
On Wednesday, the parliament of Abkhazia made an official appeal to Moscow to recognize the republic's independence. The Kremlin has yet to react to it publicly. Speaker of the Georgian parliament Nino Burjanadze told Kommersant special correspondent Olga Allenova in an exclusive interview that Russia and Georgia are on the brink of war.
Are you ready for Russia to recognize the independence of Abkhazia? They are saying that it might happen after the world community recognizes Kosovo's independence.
I don't understand why Kosovo's independence is projected onto Abkhazia. There was a genocide of the Kosovars who had remained there. In Abkhazia, everything is the other way around. About 300,000 native residents fled, and those who remained, the minority of the Abkhazian population, committed aggression. People should return home and then they can talk about all the rest. In the place of the Russian leadership, I would think hard about recognizing Abkhazia. Russia is a multinational country and such precedents are very dangerous, especially in the Caucasus.
Relations between Russia and Georgia are now in a state of cold war, wouldn't you agree?
Of course. They have made Georgians the image of the enemy. They're really hounding them. The impression is made that everything associated with Georgia has a criminal character. What is going on in Russia now is a disgrace. To me, it's as though someone in Russia was ripping out the last threads that bind us. Even when intergovernmental relations were spoiled, good relations between Georgians and Russians remained. Now those relations have been struck a heavy blow. Nationalism is the most terrible ploy in a political fight. Not one European state has used it in the last 60 years. The fact that Russia has included it in its arsenal is very dangerous. Most dangerous for multinational Russia itself. It's a calamity that will come back to haunt it.
Measures such as recalling the Russian ambassador from Georgia and evacuating Russian citizens resemble preparations for war. Is war between Russia and Georgia possible?
Recalling its ambassador was the biggest mistake Russia made. There was and there is no danger in Georgia. You see it yourself. As for war… We expect that there will be provocations in Abkhazia and South Ossetia, because it is to Russia's advantage to show that Georgia is inadequate. We know that and will try to do everything possible to prevent that development of events. War is not to Georgia's advantage. We intend to return to the conflict territories through negotiations. By the way, I don't think there will be full-scale war – that's not in Russia's favor either, since it still has to consider the international community.
But judging from recent events, the international community has to consider Russia. In the UN Security Council resolution, it talks about extending the peacekeepers' mandate in Abkhazia. Russia diplomacy has heralded that resolution as success.
In Russia, they don't always know what they are talking about. The Security Council resolution did not extend the Russian mandate, but the UNICEF mandate. And it is clearly written in that resolution that Georgia's territorial integrity is being respected and the refugees should return to Abkhazia in the shortest possible time. What victory of Russian diplomacy are you talking about? Settling the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia would be a victory of diplomacy. What victory can there be when you have permanently ruined relations with Georgia? What did a state do that has secured a peaceful Caucasus, stable relations with its neighbors and strong borders? It supports two conflicts on its borders that may flare up at any moment, and that so close to the North Caucasus, a difficult region for Russia. Russia has completely ruined its image in recent years. Russia won't understand that it is impossible to go back, it's too late. The empire can't be restored. Civilizations ways to talking to other states are needed. It is time to stop intimidating. When the gas war took place between Russia and Ukraine, all of Europe jumped. Europe understood that Russia is dangerous and unpredictable.
Maybe Russia wanted to intimidate Europe just then, since it depends on Russian gas.
It did intimidate them, but to our benefit. Now they understand in Europe who is to blame for the Russian-Georgian conflict. Do you really like being the bully of the international community?
I think Russia was trying to preserve its influence in the region that way. Everyone understands that the price of the question is Georgia accession to NATO. The Russian generals see that as a threat to the country. Now that the problem of North Korea has come up again, Georgia's admission to the alliance may be delayed. America can't get along without Russia's support in solving the Korean problem.
Georgia is and will remain a strategic partner of NATO and no one can change that. Our American friends have said so repeatedly. So there will be no trading on Georgia.
Georgia announced long ago that it was leaving the CIS, but it hasn't left yet. Have you changed your mind?
We haven't changed our minds. There is no sense in being in that structure. No one decision made by CIS member states has been implemented. If that weren't so, we would long ago have advanced in the issues of the frozen conflicts. What kind of structure doesn't do anything when two of its member states are practically on the brink of war? We don't get anything from that organization. If it worked, we would be only happy. But it doesn't work and doesn't offer anything. It is only a forum for talk. But sometimes that forum needs to be used to, which we are still doing.
The Georgian parliament passed a decision that the peacekeepers had to leave Abkhazia and South Ossetia. But the Georgian president has not demanded of Russia yet that the peacekeepers leave. Why?
We are in favor of the peacekeepers leaving. Russia is not an objective party. It is an interested party. It has illegally given Russian citizenship to Abkhazians and Ossetians so that now it can declare in full voice that it must protect its citizens. When they are protecting their citizens, they are not peacekeepers. Peacekeepers protect everyone and are supposed to be objective. Therefore, the Russian peacekeepers should go. The monopolization of conflicts by Russia should stop and a neutral force should be present in that territory. As for the president's actions, we considered the fact that the same people could provoke conflict in that territory with the immediate withdrawal of the Russian peacekeepers. Therefore, we phrased our demands not as immediate withdrawal, but as the immediate start of exchanging Russian peacekeepers for different peacekeeping forces. Russian soldiers could be present in that international force too, but not as a monopolizers. We don't need border guards who maintain the border between Georgia and Abkhazia and between Georgians and Ossetians, but doesn't protect the people who live there. We are ready to discuss any problems with the Russian leadership. The only thing that is necessary for Russian-Georgian relations it the political will for Russia to decided that it has to speak to Georgia as an equal and respect Georgia.
Olga Allenova
All the Article in Russian as of Oct. 20, 2006
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