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Vladimir Lisin: Business Is More Interesting than Shopping
First place in the rating of the officially richest people in Russia went to chairman of the board of directors of Novolipetsk Steel and President of the Riflemen's Union of Russia Vladimir Lisin. He granted First Rating an interview, meeting our correspondent at the Lisya Nora sports complex and rifle range.
Do you agree with our estimate of your status?
I don't know what to answer. I didn't help you do the calculations.
Do you feel like someone who is very, very rich?
Do I to you?
Honestly speaking, no. If I didn't know advance, I might not have guessed.
Me too. I don't know of any special feeling of wealth. The image of wealth differs greatly among people. For me, money is mainly a degree of freedom. Of course, with a certain degree of freedom comes a certain burden and some problems. One is tied to the other. But it is worth it to feel free.
Free from what or in what?
In my choice of business, my choice of direction for my internal development and the development of those around me. In that sense, big money means big possibilities. And all the rest? I don't know. The sun, air, sky, sea are the same for everybody, regardless of the amount of money they have.
Many think that you have to know some shrewd secret to become rich. Do you have a secret?
I don't know. Maybe others have certain secrets, but mine is very simple. Work hard and it will work out.
That is, what your mother taught you when you were little, right? Get high grades, work hard, and you'll get what you want in life?
It doesn't all boil down to grades in school or any specific indicators. But I think trying to do something well significantly predetermines the result. And not just well, but better than others. To have the best photo session, give the best interview, do your business best. I think that rule works for most people who are successful. That's way my experience show, any way.
How do you teach your children to look at wealth and money?
I try to explain the same thing to the children. I tell them that it's not important what you do – collect garbage, play soccer, hi tech or healing people, That's not important. Try to do it better than others. But the choice – my children have great possibilities to choose. I had many fewer possibilities to choose in my time.
How did you choose metallurgy?
That's what I'm saying. There was no real choice. Novokuznetsk, where I lived was a metals city and I entered a metallurgy institute.
Did you earn your first ruble before or after the institute?
In the institute. At that time, many people went on construction crews. I was on a construction crew on the Baikal-Amur Railway in 1975. We cleared the area for the Zeya hydroelectric power station. We cut down the forest, sawed the lumber and stacked it. We made good money.
How much money?
About 800 rubles.
Solid, Brezhnev rubles?
Of course. It was 1975. That was big money. A car cost 4000 or 5000 then. Rubles.
What did you spend that big money on?
On clothes, equipment. What could a student buy in those years? A record player or even a musical center, I don't remember exactly any more.
There is an opinion that all the big capital had to be earned during perestroika, when prices were let go and the market economy was born, and if you didn't do it then, it's too late now. What do you think? Is it harder to earn big money now than it was 10 or 15 years ago?
I don't think so. In the West, new millionaires and billionaires appear all the time, although the era of original capital accumulation certainly took place there earlier than here. And new faces can be seen in various sectors of the economy. I don't think it's harder to achieve success in Russia today.
Comparing Russia with the West, here are mainly metallurgists and oilmen on our list of the richest people, while the list in the United States begins with Bill Gates and contains many people in information technology. How do you explain that?
Looking at the formation of capital, in the West too the first great capitals were formed in both the raw materials sector and in the real sector of industry. But that was all a long time ago, and since then life there has undergone certain changes. Don't forget that we are lagging behind and that no one needs information technology if there is no real sector. What is that technology good for? For computer games? To conquer space? I suggest that most of all it's for everyday life, for making the real sector of the economy work. For automating and computerizing processes and making work easier. Do you think a digital camera is a high-technology product?
I think so.
As a matter of fact, it's a fairly primitive device. I assure you that it takes one-tenth of the knowledge to manufacture a digital camera that it takes to make high-quality steel. Which will be used in that camera, by the way. And in the Dictaphone you are recording this interview with. So, without a real sector, there will be no high technology.
Did you ever want to try something unrelated to metallurgy?
A little needlecraft in the evening? Honestly, I have no particular desire to make principle changes in my life. I think our times require ever more professional knowledge, and not generality. Concentrating on one thing is more productive than diffusion. Although maybe for someone the opposite is true. There are capable people for whom everything they try works out. I am not one of those people.
That is, you don't want to tempt fate.
It's not fate. It's just that the more you know, the more you understand how little you know. Every business requires understanding and a professional approach. Of course, big money and connections can be used to reach your goals in business too. But, in my view, serious results can only be obtained if you have good professional preparation. Professionalism determines everything.
What do you like to spend your money on? What attracts you – yachts, a big house, trips around the world?
I like to spend money on rifle sports. Among other things.
Do you collect anything?
I have a collection of Kasli cast iron figures. But they don't cost much. I'm not interested in yachts yet.
Do you move freely around the world?
Very freely. Sometimes it seems like too much too.
Luxury items? Watches?
You could continue the list that way. I have a general answer. Every person has his attitude toward things, connected with internal feelings, with a hobby, for instance, and maybe the desire to make up for a difficult past. One person might collect jewelry, gold and gemstones. That doesn't interest me. I don't know what to concentrate on and say that I want to spend my money on. Business, developing business and production processes – that is much more interesting to me than shopping. I have understood for myself that I don't need that much money for personal expenses.
Maybe you like to eat well. Do you like fine wines and cognac?
Yes. Who doesn't like good wine and cognac?
What else?
I like black bread, Borodinsky bread. I don't think an amount of money influences taste. Even in food.
All right, how do you feed your soul then? What kind of music do you like?
I don't consider myself an expert in music. I accept all good music, and jazz and classical. I don't have any particular preferences. I can't say that I like Bach or Tchaikovsky or the Beatles best.
But you do like the Beatles?
I listened to them on very poor quality reel-to-reel recordings when they were all still alive and even still played together. Alas, I never listened to them on records then. Records made it to Siberia in very small quantities and they were very expensive.
Do you like to read?
I always have. And I am very glad that I have the opportunity now not only read professional literature, but books for my soul as well, more than ever in the past. I don't let that opportunity escape.
You've lived in Novokuznetsk, Lipetsk, Tula and other cities. Where do you consider home?
That's a complicated question for me. My address is not a house or a street. For better or worse. I'm at home here at Lisya Nora as well.
But most of the guests here have never seen you and you don't know them either.
That doesn't bother me. People come here who share my enjoyment of shooting. They like to be here, they come here. No, I don't know 99percent of the people here. Except for the sportsmen, of course. But that's another matter. It's an open club. It was closed only once in the year. On my birthday. I celebrated it here. All of my acquaintances were here. A birthday is a personal, private, holiday.
Haven't you ever wanted to leave business? Let the children run it or someone else, the managers, for instance, while you relax? Didn't you ever want to?
Could you retire tomorrow?
No.
I can retire in three seconds. Why think about something that requires no advance preparation? I don't have to pack my bags, I could just go. If necessary. So far, I am still interested in running my business.
Have you been interested in shooting for a long time? When did you first pick up a rifle?
When I was 12. It was a small-caliber gun. We had a shooting range at school. That was usual then. I started to shoot there. It went well. I started target shooting seriously. Small-caliber arms at 50 meters' distance. I even got certificates for excellence. I was a ranked marksman. I continued to shoot when I was in the institute and I was not in the field. There work took up so much time, and I had to work on my dissertation too, so I gave up shooting. Later I started skeet shooting.
Do you get to do much shooting now?
When I have free time. It is good for stress because you can't shoot unless you clear your head of everything else. You have to concentrate. It simply isn't possible to think about anything else. Research has shown that shooting is practically the best there is for reducing stress. I have qualified as a master of the sport. That is enough for me personally.
(He calls out and a clay pigeon is launched. The shot is heard and the pigeon shatters.)
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